tv MSNBC Live MSNBC August 25, 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
caused by humans. so crediting science warnings of draughts, floods and over kplamities from after overwhelming climate but rest assured, if i'm your president, i will do nothing about them. republicans, romney included, may regard the natural world as a kin to wall street. mama na . mother nature makes her own plans and as is pointed out, she always hits last and always bats a thousand. thanks for being with us. more politics ahead with al sharpton. we all know is storm is coming but perry is making a storm of his own. the front runner to face president obama. so how he does explain spending
this weekend, of all week ends, with the religious leader whose views are extreme and should be denounced? that's the hot story tonight. plus, willard mitt romney running to the right. will a tea party really be happy when he gets there? and martin luther king, jr. iii on jobs, justice, and his father's long legacy. he will be with me tonight. welcome to the show, i'm al sharpton. tonight, we are all watching hurricane irene's path where it might make land fall and win. as preparations of being made all along the east coast, it reminds us of how essential our government is and how our front line government workers are to all of our safety. we will talk about that later in the show. but we start with tonight's lead. rick perry's troubling weekend bothers me. americans from all over the
country will gather to honor martin luther king, jr. in the coming days. we will march on saturday. rain or shine. we will unveil the monument. sunday. but texas governor rick perry will be spending time with man who believes dr. king believes no credit for civil rights. despite receiving an invite as governor to the ceremony honoring dr. king this weekend, rick perry will not be attending. he will be at a retreat. among others, david barton, founder of the evangelical group known as wall builders. now, he was part after group of texas conservatives who tried to make some radical changes in the state's textbooks in 2010. washington montly notes that they thought, these leaders, thought that, quote, civil rights leaders shouldn't be given any credit for advancing the rights of minorities as barton but putt it, quote, only
majority can expand political rights, ergo, any rights of people of color have were handed to them by whites. end of quote. bart yn's group pushed to revise textbooks to that the speeches of jefferson davis, the slave-owning president of the confederacy, should be taught along side those of abraham lincoln. but barton's theories don't stop there. i wonder where michele bachmann got the idea that founding fathers tried to abolish slavery? >> some of them did own slaves but 70% of them were abolitionists. so that's why we said we wanted to separate from britain, to end slavery. >> it took a decade and a half for martin luther king, jr. day to become a national holiday. the holiday faced fierce opposition from some in the republican party. but it was eventually sign need law by a republican president, named ronald regan. given how far his party has
come, it is sad that rick perry is embracing such an ugly side of it. on saturday, when we march, it will be blacks, it'll be whites, it'll be all stripes. labor leaders, everybody. from a randy wine garden to lee sanders, to martin luther king, jr. iii, you name it. dr. king believed in all races, all kinds marching together. and sunday, even those that don't want to march for jobs and justice will all come together to see the official unveiling. the main of the weekend is healing, coming together, what dr. king stood for. to think as we march, and as we sit there, the leading candidate in the polls, for the republican nomination, would even dare to be in the room with someone, that says civil rights leaders like dr. king deserve no credit,
to think he would be in a room where he would be sitting near someone that says, most of the slave owners in the beginning of the country were abolitionists. and other absurd and insulting things. it anlts to an insult. if you don't want to come invited as the governor as other governors have been invited, maybe that's understandable, maybe not. but to be in the room with someone like that, sends a statement that all-americans will not forget. ronald regan disagreed with dr. king. but when what holiday past, he signed it as president. if you want to run for the job, governor perry, you need to learn how to be bigger than some
of those extremists that you are going to be conversing with and communing with while others of us ren a man that brought the country together. joining me now is joanne reed, an msnbc contributor. and a staff writer for the texas observer. let me start with you, joy, what do you think of the associations about rick perry? you are the one who ep helped bring this to attention. >> yeah. when this story first came out, actually earlier this month, it doesn't attract a lot of attention that rick perry planned this call it action retreat. the host of it is a long time financer of perry's career. >> this is going to be in fredericksburg, texas. >> right and he is a doctor, very conservative, funds a lot of school vouchers, et cetera. but there are also co-hosts.
among the co-hosts is david barton. people may remember him as glenn beck's historian at glenn beck university. he has christian education degree from oral roberts university. he pushes this notion along with others that this is a country that should be governed, basically as christian nation. it should be governed, not by secular law, but by his interpretation after book of law. it says a lot about rick perry that he is keeping this commitment. >> let's go here a second and i want to bring in our guest into the conversation. but rick perry would have to know or his staff would have to know this person is there, because he is a cohost. this is part of the committee. not like he is just happens to be there and rick perry is there. >> right. he also was at rick perry's big 30,000 prayer meeting. he is associated with barton before. he does obviously know him and has associated with him in the
past. now a lot of folks other than even myself and others have raised questions about barton, anti-defamation league raising this point about his scholarship. this is anti-defamation league, and what they said about barton's scholarship. let me show you what they say. barton's scholarship, like that of holocaust denial ant and atlantic slave trade conspiracy monerring is rigged to arrive at predetermine id conclusions, not history. this is the adl statement on barton. let me bring in forest wilder from the texas observer. forest, how do you explain this kind of character now caught in the gallup polls. the front runner in the republican primary possess. >> david barton is a major player in the texas gop and now in the national stage. he was a vice chairman on the
texas primary for nine years. he is nearly constantly on tour, speaking to church groups and political organizations. it is wildly unorthodox view of history saying founding fathers were conservative, evangelical christians, very much like david barton. so rick perry knows who david barton is. pretty much everybody does in texas who is engaged in politics. so yeah, i mean, i think rick perry knows who david barton is. and he knows david barton's views and he is more than just comfortable with them. he has his own politics and policies. >> i think it is important that we understand that the host of this is a big financial supporter of perry. look at this, i think he contributed over a million dollars and he is called to action retreat.
there is a host and there is more than 1 to 3 million to perry's campaign. and you are telling us that mr. barton, forest is a major player in republican politics there. now you are on a national stage joy. and he is running for president. right and it is not texas politics. how do you justify, how do you explain on week ends that the nation will pause to honor martin luther king, jr. with a national monument that you will be cohosting, i'm not making this up, this is what is on the invites, one of the cohosts would be a man who stands up and says, civil rights leaders shouldn't get any credit for any of this. this is leader that we are giving credit to this weekend, voter rights and civil rights, and governor perry, invited as governor, none of the other candidates are invited because they are not sitting governors, he chooses to be at this retreat.
how do you deal with this? >> i don't know how you deal with it. particularly with the scrutiny given barack obama when he was senator and people he was associated with when he was running for president. this guy, david barton, there is more to it. he has spoken in the early 9 '90s before christian identity related groups. this is a guy who believes jesus didn't make minimum wage. one of the thing that dr. king fought for is fair wages. there guy seas jesus didn't like minimum wage. you have to wonder if they comport with perry views. this guy talked about secession. >>er with talking about this is not a theocracy, here is his words about religion and the use of religious terms and the
national discussion as well as currency and other things. look at this quote. >> i don't care what obama says about list faith. he says he is christian. fine. a lot of people say that. i know he is a secular. he omitted word creator. when he said the declaration of independent. >> so in effect wasn't a president that will impose religious beliefs on all-american people and other than that, then he feels that that person is serving under that office. now, i was a believe in god and jesus but i don't feel i have a right to impose it. does mr. barton have the same feeling, forest? >> well, barack obama is a christian but not the right type of christian for david barton.
again, they are saying this nation is founded as a fundamentalist christian nation. we they have deviated from that and i would think they think barack obama is a significant deef nation wp we need to institute public al values and inject them into other societial institutions and one way to do that is through politics and getting the right people in there. i think that is what is happening with this flirtation between rick perry, david barton and the outer periphery of the religious right in this country. >> well, forest, there are many that are going to be in washington, even with the hurricane coming behind us, thank god it will not interfere with the march and probably not sunday. and others that will be in texas where the weather is mild. but it also seems like the idea of democracy is also mild.
>> joanne reid and forest wilder, thanks for joining me. coming up, if you love bombing, dick cheney is your man. he brought america to the dark side and he is is refusing to apologize for it in his new book. republican 2012 candidates have embraced ideas that used to be considered too extreme for the gop. and our interview with martin luther king, jr. iii. we will talk about jobs, justice, and continuing his father's work. as the king memorial opens in washington, d.c.
we're back with breaking news. hundreds of thousands of people in the path of hurricane irene are getting out of the way. as it barrels up east coast. evacuation orders are in place for the north carolina coast. where irene is expected to hit on saturday. it is a powerful category 3 hurricane with winds at 115 miles per hour, it pounded the bahamas this morning. >> we're now at height of hurricane irene here in nassau. this is the most severe wind we've gotten so far. we are getting heavy rain and sleet as well. that is starting to hit us waez speak right now. frz snz forecasters say irene will likely hit new york or new jersey on sunday. airlines are beginning to cancel flights here in the east coast. irene is the strongest storm to hit the eastern seaboard in seven years.
our msnbc forecaster hering with bill karens, says it could be a billion dollar storm in terms of damage. so if you are in harm's way, definitely start thinking about getting ready and definitely look to your local state and federal governments for help. i will have more on that later in the show. we will be back with the republican presidential race. it helps to have the quality and craftsmanship of your leather interior test better than the lexus rx 350. it's also helpful to set your "select terrain" dial to "sand." ♪
. i wish you would speak to the truth rather than say something that you think is, it's a platitude -- >> someone in the voom said, and it was me -- >> i the balanced budget amendment -- >> do have you a question and let me answer your question. >> you had your turn, madam, let me have mine. listen, i will give you the microphone in a moment but let me complete. i'm sorry, it's my turn. let me speak. then you get to speak. okay? >> touchy, touchy. romney was the front-runner for months and suddenly he is trail pergry in the gallup poll by 12 points. romney's response is to take the low road he is facing to match perry's tea party extremism on things like, global warming. >> i don't know if it is mostly caused by humans. so what i'm not willing to do is spend trillions of dollars on something i don't know the answer to. >> he doesn't know, that's a far cry from romney's position just
two months ago. >> i think it is important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants, greenhouse gasses, that may be significant contributors to the climate change and global warming. >> what a difference a poll makes. or take wall street format. romney used to play it down the middle. but this week -- >> i would like it repeal that, frank. and -- yeah -- >> in other words, mitt romney is crumbling under the same tea party pressure that almost pushed the country off the economic cliff during the debt ceiling debate this year. it's a force that wants to lower taxes for the rich, slash medicare and social security and fight any real efforts to create jobs. well yb joining me now, is democratic congresswoman of illinois and bob shrum professor
at new york university. let's start with you congresswoman. you have a very strong jobs proposal. but how can we get it past these extreme republicans? >> i think if our colleagues would have the courage to follow the american people. i'm not one to throw up polls in front of politicians, but i think in this case we should be following the polls that say three to one that the americans think jobs, creating jobs is more important than debt reduction right now. aep that includes, according to one poll, the tea partiers who by majority say jobs over debt reduction. people get it. if we're going to reduce the deficit, we better get people working again. so my bill, creates 2.2 million jobs. >> and they are immediate jobs in your bill. your bill, the fast bill, would
move right away. it would fix american schools today, create 500,000 jobs immediately and repairing american schools which need it. so we are not talking about something by and by when the morning comes. we are talking about something immediate. >> no and not a single dollar would go out that is not attached to a job. so there is built-in accountability. this is not a tax break in the hopes that they will hire somebody. this money goes out to create 2.2 million jobs for each of two years at a very reasonable cost that could easily be paid for by taxing what other -- what else americans say, millionaires and billion airs would get a higher tax. >> now, bob, the politics of this, but certainly i don't feel anyone could really argue the common sense of it, but the politics of this, let's look at this poll.
this poll makes it clear, rick perry up at 29%. mitt romney down to 17. when we look at him, 12 points behind, he is now trying to move to the right because he feels the nomination is slipping out of his hands. is it a panic or do you think that we are overstating the case just because mitt, who never has hair out of place, seems to be losing it at that town hall. >> almost as soon as perry entered the race, i said set likely nominee. i think romney is toast. i think he is sad and desperate in that clip you showed. he made some mistakes. he add safe front-runner strategy. he had no roots, no resonance with its base and he is awkward and inauthentic. he came across that way in the clip you just showed. and secondly, this gi came out to try and satisfy the
extremists who have taken over the republican party. that's what he is doing now. he can count how to them but can't convince them. in perry, have you a plausible bachmann. you have a deep appeal to the tea party but at the same time is at least acceptable to the business type republicans. so i think unless perry plaksma terrible mistake or has no chance to beat obama, and i don't think that will be clear by before the primaries and i troy this is true, i don't think he has a chance. >> so bb bob shrum, you have run a few campaigns, you think perry is the nominee and mr. romney won't make it? >> i think mr. romney won't make it. i think the tea party is the republican party. i think romney will soon go after perry. but for example, on the jobs issue. romney is more vulnerable. perry is an outright radical on
a lot of these social issues but that helps him in today's republican party. this is a republican party that doesn't care about those polls the congresswoman was talking about. promised it was going to go to washington in 2010 and fight for jobs. and has done anything but that. they fought to destroy jobs. they want a recession. their definition of recover is that they take back the white house. >> let me ask you this, congresswoman, talking about radical, just the payroll tax extension that would cost, if we don't get it, roughly $2100 to each one of the taxpayers, working class people. but look who opposes it. opposes payroll tax cut extension. eric cantor. camp, ryan. i mean, how do you deal with these people who you go back after the labor day weekend, when these people won't even deal with payroll taxes, let alone deal with a job creation
bill, how do we fight this? >> the total hypocrisy, and if it weren't serious we would definitely have to laugh at this. the fact that these people who are not for taking one hair off the hat of millionaires and billionaires, don't want to reduce any taxes, for working class people. people under 106,800, because if you make more than that, you don't pay any more payroll taxes. just outrageous. now they want to draw the line. and they make up stuff. i mean, rick perry saying that barack obama has you know, destroyed more jobs than any other president. of course it's not true. he created jobs. bush didn't create a single net private sector job in his eight years. it's just -- they just make up economic facts or -- >> i've got to go,
congresswoman, george bush did create one job, and i will talk about it. he gave dick cheney a job. and i will tell you the job he did on mr. bush in his last book. bob shrum, thank you as well. >> thank care, reverend. >> as you said, mr. romney will be toast. working class people are the ones in the toaster. and i'm trying to help make sure they don't push us down into the fire. still ahead, debunking rick scott's claim that drug testing for welfare would save florida money. nice try, mr. scott. but then, dick cheney's new defense of torture. and why he wanted to bomb yet another country in the middle east. we'll be right back. ♪ [ country ]
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florida governor rick skeet crusade to force poor people to take drug tests isn't just an invasion of privacy, it's also a waste of money. in may, scott made good on a campaign promise to require people to take drug tests. before they could receive welfare benefits. applicants have to pay for the tests themselves. but get reimbursed if the results are negative. the tribune reports, so far, only 2% have tested positive for drugs. kicking 2% of recipients off
welfare saves some money. but reimbursing the overwhelming majority of those who tested negative for drugs, will practically wipe out the savings. the most this program can save florida is $5,000 a month. total. and that doesn't even take into account the cost of implementing the program and defending it from likely legal challenges and let's not forget rick scott's justification for the law. >> it shown that people on welfare are higher users of drugs than people not on welfare. >> how did that prediction pan out? scott's tests found 2% of welfare recipient use drugs. but a study by the office of national drug control policy found 8% of all florida residents use drugs. rick scott thought this intrusive law was a good way for
florida to save money. nice try, governor. but we gotcha. or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them with advice from local business experts and extending $18 billion in credit last year. that's how we're helping set opportunity in motion.
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this book is going to make a lot of people angry. >> there are going to be heads exploding all over washington, jane. >> you know that. >> yes. >> former vice president dick cheney on his no apologies tour. plugging his upcoming book and promoting his version of history. in an interview with nbc's jamie, if you are into people who like torture and like bombing other people's countries, this is the book for you. cheney makes no apologies for any of his controversial decisions and even says if he had it his way, we would have gone to war with syria too. 2007, cheney told president bush he wanted to bomb a syrian nuclear reactor. he writes, quote, i was a lone voice. the president asked, does anyone here agree with the vice president? not a single hand went up around the room.
cheney also says, he has no regret about water boarding terrorists in my manner. snooze should we still be water boarding terror suspects? >> i would strongly support using it again if circumstances arose where we add high value detainee and that was the only way we could get limb it talk. >> even though so many people condemned it, people call it torture, you think it should be a tool? >> yes. >> now we have not read the book but we have taken those excerpts from the new york times. joining me now, is lou deboes, editor of the washington spectator and coauthor of vice dick cheney and the and matthew alex ender and former senior interrogator and author of killer capture how a special operations task force took down a notorious al qaeda
terrorist. he is currently a fellow at ucla center for international relations. is cheney trying to rewrite history in this book. >> i don't know if he needs to wre row write history. maybe he will just try to tell the truth. the guy is, he is the gungaden of military intervention. there is never a war in our generation that he supported vietnam, five deferments but, you know, grenada or contra, he ran the panama invasion, the invasion of panama, he rewrote the plan for the first gulf war. and push et had president into enter iraq. he is going to be unapologetic and i don't know he has it rewrite it because he has nothing to apologize for. >> matthew, he is rewriting
history on water boarding. he is saying that water boarding is justified. he is standing by it. i mean, you are an expert in this area. how do you respond to what he is saying and continues it say about water boarding? >> al, he certainly is trying to rewrite history in respect to water boarding and torture. what we are probably not seeing in this book or even this book is the fact that torture and water boarding inflated the ranks of al qaeda and led to the deaths of americans in iraq. when ways there overseeing interrogations of foreign fighters, we heard it all the time and statistics, number one foreign fighters came to fight in iraq, is because of water boarding and torturing the prisoners in american custody. those foreign fighters came to iraq, they made up 90% of suicide bombers and they killed hundreds if not thousands of american soldiers who are now buried in arlington national cemetery. >> let me ask you this, and i want to bring you back in on another point, matthew, because
my time is limited, because i want to ask lou this. when i hear matthew talking about the impact of what water boarding did in terms of our perception around the world, also our perception and our image took a huge hit when we looked at iraq and the fact that we said there were weapons of mass destruction there that they were not even there was some debate we learned in the white house, and then he says this n this book, cheney, reading from the new york times excerpts, that condoleezza rice came in his office after questioning some things and say some things about iraq and then she came in tearfully, crying to him, apologizing. he says, i'm quoting now, from the book, she came into my office, sat down in the chair next to my desk, and tearfully admitted i had been right.
i mean, i question your title about hijacking, but this guy is amazing. >> you know, a lot of -- condoleezza rice plays to his interest, his power began to wane when she became secretary of state. and much of the functions that office of the vice president was running at the state department, he loathes colin powell. and he -- cheney isn't capable of diplomacy. and to paint couldn't lisa rice like that, only serves to make him look the better. look, this is man who has never found the war that he didn't like. as lawrence wilkerson said, colonel wilkerson who worked for powell, believes cheney is incapable of diplomacy. he meets with soviet defense tom
downy. opening up reduction talks, he is a member of congress at the time, he says that he has none of it, he says capitulation or nothing. downy excess about where are they on red square, and it is an icbn target. there is a draft dodger who ever held elected office in the history of this country. >> let me ask you, as we get ready to go, water boarding, this of course will come up because of his defense and certainly many of us will then raise it to especially the republican candidates, is there any justification, you're the expert here, is there any justification at all can you think of, for water boarding? >> if we look at long-term negative consequences of using water boarding or any types of torture, they always far exceed
any type of short term gain you are going to get out of it. whether it is helping the enemy accrue or lowering our own moral standards that have effects throughout the force and whether it is giving up high moral ground which is what we are fighting for. once we start resorting to torture, what dick cheney convinced people, to do, is to put our security before principles. that a fund manial change in the landscape of america. that is what he is trying to do. he is trying to convince us that that's what america is about. and i think the people have stood up and said through various elections, that that is not what america is about and that his version of hist i have wrong. >> lou deboes and matthew alexander, thank you for your time this evening. >> thank you reverend. coming up, fulfilling the dream 48 years later, martin luther king, jr. ir ii will be here live to talk about his here live to talk about his fath only, and those people are what i like to call wrong.
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he needs some gellin'. yeahhhhhhh. gellin' is like having a teeny tiny foot masseuse in your shoe. you like ? nice ! dr. scholl's massaging gel insoles. outrageous comfort, all-day long. this sunday on the 48th anniversary of martin luther king, jr. i have a dream speech, on the national mall in washington, d.c., a monument will pay tribute to his fight for equality and justice. it also reminds us of the work still to be done and the work to still fulfill his vision. none has worked harder in realizing that dream to become a reality than his son, oldest living child, martin luther king iii, who is president and chief
executive officer of the martin luther king, jr. center for nonviolent social change. how are you tonight, martin? >> i'm doing wonderful, rev, hope you're doing well. >> i'm doing well. >> this weekend, and you're already in washington, and a lot is going on, and you will join us on saturday as we march for jobs and justice. and sunday the ceremony. and aside from your personal feelings, which i'll get to, why is jobs that we're going to march for saturday and that you've been talking about poverty, why is this so important in light of your father's legacy? >> well, first and foremost, martin luther king, jr. dedicated his life. creating opportunities for women and men to live together without destroying the person or property around the issue of nonviolence.
we have made great strategy around race but we are not there yet on that esh u. but we know poverty, i should say thousands of people are slipping into poverty because of foreclosures and the debt crisis, the economy, for the world community right now, this crisis. and this monument i plef will inspire generations reborn to commit themselves to finishing this work that is not finished in our nation. >> now, martin, when you talk about poverty, let me show you this graph. because i think people need to understand the contents of these events this weekend. if we look at the income level and the inequality in this country, to get between the richest 1% and middle and lowest income level persons, it is the
greatest since the 1920s. so when we march this weekend and we stand there with your father's monument and you talk about poverty, we are at a place we haven't been since the 1920s in terms of wealth. >> and you know, that is most tragic and it really says something about what dad was talking about redistributing wealth in this nation. not to keep anyone from making as much money as they were capable making. but if we don't have a radical redistribution, which is one of the thing he said, we are going to continue to spiral in this direction and the reality is we could have collapse. we don't -- with all the wealth in this nation that exists in that 1%, rev, it is very sad that we find ourselves in
conditions where young people are graduating from college who cannot find jobs. we can and we must do better. that is what is -- i hope this memorial, this dedication, part of what this dedication memorial represent. >> now, one thing i must say, and i showed a picture of the family, people need to know your whole family were a part of the movement. you led your father's organization. we marched together all over this country. you and i have been arrested leading marchs in st. louis, and other places. gina, louisiana. this is a personal thing where not just you and your sister and brother are not just some kids of an icon, you are actively fighting in the tradition of your father, and your mother, we all worked under her tut laj. this is what you do. >> it certainly is.
i represent the martin luther king center now and the king center objective is to create the climate where nonviolence can become real for all human kind. and we do that through a variety of methods. part of it is teaching and training. but really when you expose people to who martin luther king, jr. was, you educate them. and i think again the memorial will do some of that. i think a new generation will be inspired to want to go out and embrace what martin luther king, jr. embraced, which ultimately will change our nation. perhaps put us in the right direction. today it seems we are not headed in the right direction. how do we, in this nation, have people sleeping on the streets every night in all of our cities. there is something wrong with that when we have so many blessings and so much wealth. >> as your father and mother taught us, it won't change by itself. that's why we will be marching saturday, standing with you and the foundation on sunday and all
weekend long. martin luther king, jr. iii, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> as hurricane irene barrels up the east coast, millions of americans are turning the government for help and protection. yes, government. that's next. chronologically i'm sixty years old. is it the new forty, i don't know. i probably feel about thirty.
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. tonight, mother nature is providing us with a wonderful and brutal reminder about our nature as a people. hurricane irene is a big storm. it is barreling toward the east coast, bringing drenching rain and punishing winds. the first strike is expected in north caroline why on saturday. we are a nation in the midst of a great debate on the role of government in our lives.
one side in this country questions the necessities of a strong government. the storm will make no distinction between rich and poor, black or white, democrat or republican. this weekend, millions of americans will look to their government to see them through. first responders to police officers, to firefighters, this is what's at stake in the great national debate over the role of government. it is what president obama was telling americans on his bus tour loost week. >> government is our troops who are fighting on our behalf in afghanistan and iraq. that's government. government are all those fema folks when there's a flood or drought or some emergency who come out and are helping people out, that's government. government is social security. government are teachers in the classroom. [ cheers and applause ] >> we need strong government. strong enough to protect the